5 Best Bitcoin Mining Hardware ASIC Machines (2020 Rigs)
5 Best Bitcoin Mining Hardware ASIC Machines (2020 Rigs)
Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index - Digiconomist
ASIC Vs GPU: Which Is Better for Mining? - Bitcoin Miner ...
What IS Better: ASIC or GPU Bitcoin mining?
ASIC Vs GPU: Which Is Better for Mining? CoinCodex
Reminder this is r/stock and not a crypto sub; feedback welcomed.
The reason why we have a rule against crypto discussions is because this is stocks where we discuss stocks. Last year we had a surge of comments that were literally "buy bitcoin" in almost every single post on stocks, and it wasn't just a single comment, sometimes you would find 10 users stating the exact same thing, "buy bitcoin" or going into details on how to mine bitcoins; this is spam & off topic. Also Bitcoin is not a stock, just like discussing buying & reselling sneakers is not a stock, these discussions are off topic and that reason alone was enough to remove posts & comments. Unfortunately this wasn't enough, so we created a rule (see sidebar) against discussing crypto with a link to a sub where you could; we also made an automod rule to deal with this. If you want to discuss investing in general, you can go to investing, which is mentioned in the sidebar (on mobile by tapping "about this community"). If you want to discuss crypto & mining you can go to CryptoCurrency. Below is the automod message I wrote, please give me your criticism & feedback on this. I made it informative to deal with some misconceptions & misinformation (including GPU mining). You can also see that when a stock is related to crypto, I've whitelisted that stock (including this post) so you can discuss crypto as long as that discussion is related to the stock (or this post), so it's not 100% removal; it also only affects top level comments: Sorry your comment (link to comment) in /stocks was automatically removed as per rule 6: Bitcoins & cryptocurrenies should be discussed in CryptoCurrency. This probably only affects your comment if it was a top level suggestion. Keep in mind this is stocks and people come here for stock suggestions. We've whitelisted some discussions on crypto, but not all such as bitcoin & crypto holding ETFs and futures (explanation below). However we allow crypto discussions on the following: Coinbase IPO, Square INC, Overstock, XNET, MARA, GCAP, NVDA, AMD, and Kodak; this list will always be updated (see below to what won't be included). A list of the rules can be found here, and if you're new to stocks please see the wiki and/or read this post. If you're just wondering if cryptocoins are an investment, read here. Please note:
GBTC, BTSC & other crypto holding ETFs don't function like other commodity ETFs like USO & GLD. GBTC & BTSC are overvalued, inefficient, trade on Over The Counter exchange, and unregulated. Within a 5 day period where Bitcoins went up 43% for the week of Dec 4th 2017 while GBTC dropped 7% and BTSC fell a whopping 61% (people calling BTSC a scam is not an exaggeration).
AMD, NVDA, VISA are not affected by bitcoins; GPU mining died in 2013 and since then everyone has switched to ASIC mining, check for your self with this website.; some analysts say only 5% of GPU sales are related to crypto mining.
VISA is not affected by crypto currencies: VISA transactions are around $10 trillion while we don't have a dollar value of retail crypto transactions, we have per second retail volume of bitcoin + eth = 14 per second vs VISA at 4471 per second (based on 2016, source), source for crypto transactions..
CBOE Bitcoin futures (XBT) & CME Bitcoin futures are not stocks and don't affect the stock market like other commodities:
Oil futures affect the stock market because the energy industry depends heavily on the price of oil.
Price of gold, copper, steel, and other metals affect several industries & their respective stocks, not to mention gold is an indicator for feasafe-haven and affects stock indexes.
As of 12/2017, there is not a single publicly traded company that depends on the price of cryptocurrencies. As that changes I'll whitelist those specific stocks until there's a recognized sector and I'll release the floodgates of posts. Until then, see cryptomarkets, TheWallStreet, or Commodities.
If you're wondering if a crypto crash could affect the stock market, lets put things into perspective: Bitcoin & crytpocurrency market caps are still less than 1% of the stock market at around half a trillion (12/2017) while gold is at 7 trillion, the s&p at 22.5 trillion, and residential real estate at 34 trillion; not to mention bonds & global real estate reduce everything I just mentioned into fractions. Source & source.
Thanks for understanding. Again this post is whitelisted so you can mention any crypto related keyword (as long as it deals with this post), and please provide your feedback which will help me whitelist more stocks/keywords; again keep in mind this is stocks. Update: Based on feedback I updated the bullet point regarding the size of crypto market vs stock market, thanks u/yourslice Update2: Based on information provided by u/mike_996, I'm whitelisting NVDA & AMD against crypto related keywords. However I'll be making a 2nd rule that'll remove "how to mine" type questions w/ a message that contains links to sub reddits on mining.
Technical Cryptonight Discussion: What about low-latency RAM (RLDRAM 3, QDR-IV, or HMC) + ASICs?
The Cryptonight algorithm is described as ASIC resistant, in particular because of one feature:
A megabyte of internal memory is almost unacceptable for the modern ASICs.
EDIT: Each instance of Cryptonight requires 2MB of RAM. Therefore, any Cryptonight multi-processor is required to have 2MB per instance. Since CPUs are incredibly well loaded with RAM (ie: 32MB L3 on Threadripper, 16 L3 on Ryzen, and plenty of L2+L3 on Skylake Servers), it seems unlikely that ASICs would be able to compete well vs CPUs. In fact, a large number of people seem to be incredibly confident in Cryptonight's ASIC resistance. And indeed, anyone who knows how standard DDR4 works knows that DDR4 is unacceptable for Cryptonight. GDDR5 similarly doesn't look like a very good technology for Cryptonight, focusing on high-bandwidth instead of latency. Which suggests only an ASIC RAM would be able to handle the 2MB that Cryptonight uses. Solid argument, but it seems to be missing a critical point of analysis from my eyes. What about "exotic" RAM, like RLDRAM3 ?? Or even QDR-IV?
QDR-IV SRAM is absurdly expensive. However, its a good example of "exotic RAM" that is available on the marketplace. I'm focusing on it however because QDR-IV is really simple to describe. QDR-IV costs roughly $290 for 16Mbit x 18 bits. It is true Static-RAM. 18-bits are for 8-bits per byte + 1 parity bit, because QDR-IV is usually designed for high-speed routers. QDR-IV has none of the speed or latency issues with DDR4 RAM. There are no "banks", there are no "refreshes", there are no "obliterate the data as you load into sense amplifiers". There's no "auto-charge" as you load the data from the sense-amps back into the capacitors. Anything that could have caused latency issues is gone. QDR-IV is about as fast as you can get latency-wise. Every clock cycle, you specify an address, and QDR-IV will generate a response every clock cycle. In fact, QDR means "quad data rate" as the SRAM generates 2-reads and 2-writes per clock cycle. There is a slight amount of latency: 8-clock cycles for reads (7.5nanoseconds), and 5-clock cycles for writes (4.6nanoseconds). For those keeping track at home: AMD Zen's L3 cache has a latency of 40 clocks: aka 10nanoseconds at 4GHz Basically, QDR-IV BEATS the L3 latency of modern CPUs. And we haven't even begun to talk software or ASIC optimizations yet.
CPU inefficiencies for Cryptonight
Now, if that weren't bad enough... CPUs have a few problems with the Cryptonight algorithm.
AMD Zen and Intel Skylake CPUs transfer from L3 -> L2 -> L1 cache. Each of these transfers are in 64-byte chunks. Cryptonight only uses 16 of these bytes. This means that 75% of L3 cache bandwidth is wasted on 48-bytes that would never be used per inner-loop of Cryptonight. An ASIC would transfer only 16-bytes at a time, instantly increasing the RAM's speed by 4-fold.
AES-NI instructions on Ryzen / Threadripper can only be done one-per-core. This means a 16-core Threadripper can at most perform 16 AES encryptions per clock tick. An ASIC can perform as many as you'd like, up to the speed of the RAM.
CPUs waste a ton of energy: there's L1 and L2 caches which do NOTHING in Cryptonight. There are floating-point units, memory controllers, and more. An ASIC which strips things out to only the bare necessities (basically: AES for Cryptonight core) would be way more power efficient, even at ancient 65nm or 90nm designs.
QDR-IV and RLDRAM3 still have latency involved. Assuming 8-clocks of latency, the naive access pattern would be:
This isn't very efficient: the RAM sits around waiting. Even with "latency reduced" RAM, you can see that the RAM still isn't doing very much. In fact, this is why people thought Cryptonight was safe against ASICs. But what if we instead ran four instances in parallel? That way, there is always data flowing.
Cryptonight #1 Read
Cryptonight #2 Read
Cryptonight #3 Read
Cryptonight #4 Read
Cryptonight #1 Write
Cryptonight #2 Write
Cryptonight #3 Write
Cryptonight #4 Write
Cryptonight #1 Read #2
Cryptonight #2 Read #2
Cryptonight #3 Read #2
Cryptonight #4 Read #2
Cryptonight #1 Write #2
Cryptonight #2 Write #2
Cryptonight #3 Write #2
Cryptonight #4 Write #2
Notice: we're doing 4x the Cryptonight in the same amount of time. Now imagine if the stalls were COMPLETELY gone. DDR4 CANNOT do this. And that's why most people thought ASICs were impossible for Cryptonight. Unfortunately, RLDRAM3 and QDR-IV can accomplish this kind of pipelining. In fact, that's what they were designed for.
As good as QDR-IV RAM is, its way too expensive. RLDRAM3 is almost as fast, but is way more complicated to use and describe. Due to the lower cost of RLDRAM3 however, I'd assume any ASIC for CryptoNight would use RLDRAM3 instead of the simpler QDR-IV. RLDRAM3 32Mbit x36 bits costs $180 at quantities == 1, and would support up to 64-Parallel Cryptonight instances (In contrast, a $800 AMD 1950x Threadripper supports 16 at the best). Such a design would basically operate at the maximum speed of RLDRAM3. In the case of x36-bit bus and 2133MT/s, we're talking about 2133 / (Burst Length4 x 4 read/writes x 524288 inner loop) == 254 Full Cryptonight Hashes per Second. 254 Hashes per second sounds low, and it is. But we're talking about literally a two-chip design here. 1-chip for RAM, 1-chip for the ASIC/AES stuff. Such a design would consume no more than 5 Watts. If you were to replicate the ~5W design 60-times, you'd get 15240 Hash/second at 300 Watts.
Depending on cost calculations, going cheaper and "making more" might be a better idea. RLDRAM2 is widely available at only $32 per chip at 800 MT/s. Such a design would theoretically support 800 / 4x4x524288 == 95 Cryptonight Hashes per second. The scary part: The RLDRAM2 chip there only uses 1W of power. Together, you get 5 Watts again as a reasonable power-estimate. x60 would be 5700 Hashes/second at 300 Watts. Here's Micron's whitepaper on RLDRAM2: https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/technical-note/dram/tn4902.pdf . RLDRAM3 is the same but denser, faster, and more power efficient.
Hybrid Cube Memory
Hybrid Cube Memory is "stacked RAM" designed for low latency. As far as I can tell, Hybrid Cube memory allows an insane amount of parallelism and pipelining. It'd be the future of an ASIC Cryptonight design. The existence of Hybrid Cube Memory is more about "Generation 2" or later. In effect, it demonstrates that future designs can be lower-power and give higher-speed.
The overall board design would be the ASIC, which would be a simple pipelined AES ASIC that talks with RLDRAM3 ($180) or RLDRAM2 ($30). Its hard for me to estimate an ASIC's cost without the right tools or design. But a multi-project wafer like MOSIS offers "cheap" access to 14nm and 22nm nodes. Rumor is that this is roughly $100k per run for ~40 dies, suitable for research-and-development. Mass production would require further investments, but mass production at the ~65nm node is rumored to be in the single-digit $$millions or maybe even just 6-figures or so. So realistically speaking: it'd take ~$10 Million investment + a talented engineer (or team of engineers) who are familiar with RLDRAM3, PCIe 3.0, ASIC design, AES, and Cryptonight to build an ASIC.
Current CPUs waste 75% of L3 bandwidth because they transfer 64-bytes per cache-line, but only use 16-bytes per inner-loop of CryptoNight.
Low-latency RAM exists for only $200 for ~128MB (aka: 64-parallel instances of 2MB Cryptonight). Such RAM has an estimated speed of 254 Hash/second (RLDRAM 3) or 95 Hash/second (Cheaper and older RLDRAM 2)
ASICs are therefore not going to be capital friendly: between the higher costs, the ASIC investment, and the literally millions of dollars needed for mass production, this would be a project that costs a lot more than a CPU per-unit per hash/sec.
HOWEVER, a Cryptonight ASIC seems possible. Furthermore, such a design would be grossly more power-efficient than any CPU. Though the capital investment is high, the rewards of mass-production and scalability are also high. Data-centers are power-limited, so any Cryptonight ASIC would be orders of magnitude lower-power than a CPU / GPU.
EDIT: Greater discussion throughout today has led me to napkin-math an FPGA + RLDRAM3 option. I estimated roughly ~$5000 (+/- 30%, its a very crude estimate) for a machine that performs ~3500 Hashes / second, on an unknown number of Watts (Maybe 75Watts?). $2000 FPGA, $2400 RLDRAM3, $600 on PCBs, misc chips, assembly, etc. etc. A more serious effort may use Hybrid Cube Memory to achieve much higher FPGA-based Hashrates. My current guess is that this is an overestimate on the cost, so -30% if you can achieve some bulk discounts + optimize the hypothetical design and manage to accomplish the design on cheaper hardware.
Based upon interest shown in my post here earlier today, the following is a ELi5 and AMA post on my perspective as a cryptocurrency investor and miner, specifically how I see the cryptocurrency space impacting AMD's performance in the near to medium term (0-3 years). My Background: I am not a computer scientist, and many on this form know significantly more than I ever will in regards to computing, computing hardware design, and software. Take this into consideration when reading my post, and feel free to open up discussion if you disagree with me. I am always looking to learn / assess new perspectives. I do though have a background in STEM, until recently have followed AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA closely in regards to consumer and enthusiast hardware release, and have been mining Ethereum on a hand-built machine for roughly the past year, and investing in crypto for a decent amount of time as well. Given this, I believe that I can provide insight into the cryptocurrency and crypto mining realm, which is tightly coupled to AMD's GPU sales. My Motivation for Writing This: About a year ago I was a daily browser of this sub. Check my profile history if you wish. It was this very sub that gave me confidence to make my first investments outside of a 401k. Through this sub’s members I laid a foundation for making future investments that I will carry with me through life. How I Got Started In Cryptocurrency: Ironically, my start in cryptocurrency came through this very sub. As a daily follower of AMD_STOCK, during the initial Ethereum run-up early last year AMD and NVIDIA GPU’s were selling like hotcakes. Prices for GPU’s released months prior were rising instead of falling. I had no clue what a cryptocurrency even was. I distinctly remember reading through a post on this sub explaining the GPU shortage. It was simply “Ethereum”. I don’t know why, but this post struck me more than it should have. How could a shortage of hundreds of thousands of GPUs, totaling millions of dollars, be summed up in one word? This was the entrance to the rabbit whole that is cryptocurrency, or what I think is more telling, the financial and supply chain tech revolution. Cryptocurrency Eli5: Cryptocurrency is currently so much more than Bitcoin. Cryptocurrency is currently the financial, supply chain, + whatever else it ends up touching, technology revolution that is currently taking place as we speak. Cryptocurrency simply is a set of protocols that allow monetary/data transaction, smart contracts (think “if a, do b”), and/or storage in a distributed and trustless way, without a middle man. Eli5: It is a system that allows you and little Johnny from down the street to pay each other allowance money for things, without your mommies needing to get involved to make sure no one is getting cheated (Peer to Peer Payments). It can also allow you and Johnny to make deals with each other, and Johnny won’t be able to get out of it by saying “just kidding” later on (Smart Contracts). In both of these cases, you and Johnny write down the agreed upon payment, deal, information on a piece of paper, sign your names, and then send it out to everyone you know. Once those people recognize your and Johnny’s signature they sign it as well (distributed ledger). If there are any disagreements later, you look at the piece of paper and see what actually happened. For much more detail, visit cryptocurrency or some of the other cryptocurrency subs. Proof of Work (PoW) vs Proof of Stake (PoS): I had talked previously about handing out a copy of transactions to other peers for consensus. I was referring to a distributed ledger. This allows those who use the network to look over previous transactions and come to an agreement upon past history, avoid double spends (someone giving the same dollar to two different people), and verify a user’s current funds. Well, it doesn’t exactly work like that, and different cryptocurrencies employ different “consensus mechanism’s”. IT IS THESE CONSENSUS MECHANISMS THAT ARE OF IMPORTANCE AS AMD INVESTORS. I’ll try to go through the most prominent ones below. Consensus Mechanisms: Eli5: They solve the question: What if you and Johnny both hand out copies containing different information? Who decides what the truth is? Proof of Work (PoW): Eli5: Proof of Work is like if you and Johnny hand out copies of your transactions to each of your classmates, the teacher decides that this isn’t a democracy, and that not everyone gets to vote on what they think happened. The teacher says that for each math problem in today’s math quiz a student gets right, they get one vote to put in the jar up at the front of the class. After the quiz is done and everyone puts their votes in the jar, the teacher then reaches in and grabs a random vote on if you or Johnny were telling the truth. It is then recorded. Also, the student’s who’s vote was selected gets a gold star today (mining rewards, what makes this all profitable for miners). How is AMD involved in this? AMD’s GPU’s are what solves the math problems for the students in this example. The more math problems that they can solve correctly before the quiz is over, the higher chance that they have at getting to decide what is recorded on the ledger, and thus receive mining rewards (free cryptocurrency). Proof of Stake (PoS): Eli5: Well the teacher decided that she didn’t like doing math tests anymore because they took too much time and thought that the paper and pencils consumed during the quiz’s were a waste of the school’s resources (electricity used in PoW). She decided that instead, each student would get one vote based upon how many gold stars (how much cryptocurrency) they already have. But the catch is, if a student is caught lying somehow on their vote, they get all of their current gold stars taken away. This is what is “At Stake” in the Proof of Stake model. How does this differ from PoW from an AMD perspective? Well, if you haven’t noticed, there are no more math problems to be solved in this model, thus high-performance GPUs are not necessary for PoS mining. This provides several advantages in terms of energy savings, but would not be good for AMD’s sales. The Current State of The Market in Regards to PoW vs PoS: Currently, a majority of cryptocurrencies operate on the PoW model, but that ratio is dwindling as currencies switch over to PoS models. PoS is seen to provide several advantages, with major ones being energy efficiency and a potential reduced transaction time. Major cryptocurrencies using PoW include Ethereum, Monero, Zcash, etc.. with the most profitable over the past year usually being Ethereum. Ethereum is currently planning on switching over to a PoS model, but that transition has been delayed, and now has planned to first transition to a hybrid model of PoW and PoS before fully transferring over to PoS. I have not heard any rumors from Monero or Zcash about transitioning over to PoS in the short term. My Perspective/Predictions on AMD GPU Sales Over the Short and Medium Term:
Cryptocurrency over the medium term will continue to flourish/rise. There may be a major “crash” in the future, but I believe that is at least a year away, and a crash event would still leave the total market cap higher than it currently is valued at ~600 Billion dollars.
It will be 1+ year before a significant portion of current major PoW currencies phase out PoW for PoS.
AMD will continue to sell out GPU products for the foreseeable future (~1 year) as 1 & 2 above create a recipe for sustained/increased profitability in cryptocurrency mining.
Long Term – PoW will likely fade away as PoS grows in popularity. I foresee this happening in the 1-3 year time frame. What happens to AMD? Well, if the transition happens fast, gaming GPUs will flood the market and their new hardware sales will obviously be challenged to compete. If the transition happens slower, I see the trend being less violent to AMD as a company if they can keep performance improvements from generation to generation up. Although there will still be a flood of cheap used hardware on the market, before sufficient hardware floods the market new higher performance hardware could be released making old hardware obsolete for mid to high end gamers. This would be a huge win for AMD investors as it would minimize any impact to sales.
Because of the statement above, pay close attention to the PoS transition timeframe for Ethereum. This will be the first mass selloff of consumer GPUs.
Things I did not Cover:
AMD GPUs are typically more profitable than NVIDIA’s for cryptocurrency mining and why.
You cannot mine Bitcoin with consumer GPUs profitably. They require custom hardware (ASIC).
Getting into the actual process of how to mine (see the many Ethereum mining subs like ethermining for answers).
Have I made a profit – Yes, I have paid off my investment and then some.
What do I think of mining vs just investing – Okay I’ll answer this one. I personally would choose to invest directly into the cryptocurrencies over mining, unless you are using your existing gaming GPU, as I believe that investing will yield potentially an order of magnitude higher ROI over the next 2-5 years. Start with cryptocurrency and go from there. If you have specific questions, feel free to PM me. This is coming from a miner mind you.
My exit plan for the market? Well, I’ve stated above that I think a major crash (greater than 50%, we see 50% crashes every 3 or so months, but these are often largely exceeded by gains after) in this market will likely dip to current or slightly below current total market cap. I could be wrong though, but that’s a risk I am willing to take given my deep dive on this space. I currently hold currencies that will pay PoS mining rewards. I plan to sell these rewards.
Thanks for reading guys. I hope you found some useful information. If you have questions or see anything you disagree with feel free to comment! TLDR: I see cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency mining, and thus AMD GPU sales holding strong for the foreseeable short term ~1 year. This is just my opinion, do your own research, I could be wrong, but I live in this space.
Energy efficient Crypto mining Burst explained in less than a page
Burstcoin (BURST) is a cryptocurrency and payment system using an innovative blockchain protocol called Proof-of-Capacity (PoC) offering several advantages vs other Blockchain protocols : - Uses cheap storage space instead of CPU/ASIC/GPU - Energy Efficient 1 kW⋅h vs 400 kW⋅h per transaction (Bitcoin) - Ease of mining (cryptographic work is done upfront) and accessibility of HDD hardware increases the decentralization and security of the network In August 2017 the PoCC (Proof-of-Capacity Consortium), a group composed of highly skilled blockchain developers and scientists, saw the potential of this blockchain protocol and decided to invest and devote time in improving its technology. The result of this effort was published in the Dymaxion white paper in December, where they shared with the world the 2018 improvement roadmap they have planned for Burst. The strategy outlined was to implement the best technologies that had currently been developed in the blockchain space : - Dynamic node capabilities, transaction fees and block size - Energy efficient tangle off-chain transactions (15kJ) - Colored tangles (independent Lightning Network for P2P transaction channels using Directed Acyclic Graphs) - Atomic Cross-Tangle Transactions with desired properties - Anonymous transactions using either zk-SNARKs or Ring Signatures It is normal for one to doubt the ability of the PoCC to achieve such an ambitious roadmap but I would advise anyone first look at the amount of activity in the Burst GitHub! since August 2017 and have a go at reading the Dymaxion! white paper. If your are interested in finding more about Burst here are a couple useful links : Main Website / Burst Wiki / The Burstcoinist / Medium articles / Youtube videos / Burst forums
Uh, I’m Marketing Specialist (Guerrilla) I’m so glad you brought this up! It’s the one thing that LTC lacks in and it’s ironic because LTC is the only coin deserving of a full-time marketing team. I think people are starting to finally realize that it’s all about the marketing, word of mouth and branding in crypto. To put this into perspective as a self-funded/semi-retired internet entrepreneur, I’ll tell you exactly what caused my successes and failures. Initially (when I was young), I would launch a service or product in which I used 90% of the budget for development and 10% left over for marketing resulting in failure. At this point if I ever launch a new product or service online 70%+ of the entire budget would be allocated towards the marketing, so I can’t stress the importance of this. 1 million CNY ($150k) applied to a dev team is absolutely incredible, but LTC desperately needs a monthly marketing budget as well. It would be fantastic if these Scrypt mining manufactures or farms could consider that expense the cost of doing business. $5k a month starting budget could really do wonders for creating awareness. You can see here that we desperately need to address this issue: (sleeping giant) https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=litecoin There’s really no need for a DM regarding the marketing unless someone is brought on to manage a campaign, but I would like to give feedback publicly on what I’ve seen so far (since I’m all about community/transparency and appreciate feedback). I can be very direct and hurt people’s feelings, but the only thing that matters is the success of LTC for the sake of humanity (financial freedom from total economic enslavement), so here are my thoughts below. 1.) Current Slogan. I’d like to first go over the silver analogy since Xinxi mentioned it earlier in a reddit post. Right off the bat there are pros and cons that I see with this association. Pros: During a BTC pump breaking ATH’s it is very beneficial being known as the Silver to Bitcoin’s gold as we’ve already seen demonstrated with the pump in late 2013. People feel that they missed the BTC boat and turn to an alternative that is underpriced and somewhat similar to BTC. Bitcoin paves the infrastructure path while Litecoin trails behind receiving all the benefits, such as the hardware wallet support. It positions Litecoin as a “non-threating” alternative to Bitcoin and acts as a logical trading pair. If you like BTC, then theoretically you should like LTC as well. The Bitcoin association to a digital gold is very powerful because many cultures still understand it as a monetary metal throughout history. I remember in 2011 the BTC community was really pushing that deep psychological comparison. In 2013, Bitcoin hit parity with gold reaching $1,200 and LTC at $48 which is also very similar to what we saw with physical silver. That was not by accident, but now that BTC has hit that objective I don’t hear thought leaders comparing it too gold much anymore and they claim one Bitcoin will be worth 1 million dollars feeding into that gold fever hype. The other issue with changing silver analogy is that Coblee literally designed LTC to be the silver to Bitcoin’s gold and produced 4x more inflation. LTC is also deflationary similar to gold, silver and Bitcoin so logically I guess it only makes sense. PM comparison takes a very complicated concept and helps simplify it for your average man on the street. Cons: What I don’t like about the silver association. So I believe most here will agree that Gold feels like it’s more important/sought after than Silver. Considering historically kings have access to gold and commoners have access to the silver. I do believe it’s hard for people to chant and cheer, “We’re #2, We’re #2, We’re #2!!!”. Do you see what I mean here? It’s hard to get Excited about that for people and the same goes with hoarding LTC vs BTC. It also creates a dependency on Bitcoin for eternity and keeps LTC under the thumb of the BTC overlords (I know some of them and they hate LTC). The association should be more like Pepsi and Coke or Ying to Yang and one could technically still operate without the other. If LTC dies (I doubt this), then people will forget about the silver association and just continue chanting for Bitcoin #1/Gold2.0/21 Million/I’m Rich Bitches. If BTC dies or is bottlenecked to death it would be nice for LTC to still exist in the minds of the crypto community and that dependence is also dangerous for LTC (as we keep seeing Bitcoins lack of scaling). You’ll notice every time BTC bottlenecks transactions that the price rally gets cut short again which affects the potential LTC rally. This is also a big part of why hedging out of BTC into alts such as LTC is important, but many think why would I hold LTC when I can just hold BTC so they invest in something totally different like ETH as a hedge. The other issue is the ratio and stability of LTC when the ratio both snaps back (short-term) and is suppressed (long-term), so it doesn’t make for the most stable currency when this occurs (although a 40x gain in value again would be nice). Many precious metal bugs will state that the physical gold/silver ratio should be around 1:16 ounces and technically if BTC/LTC had identical network-effect the value ratio would be closer to 1:4. Right now, we’re nearing 1:200 which is absurd. Not only that, this association is not so accurate because the gold and silver volume/ratio of atoms on this earth is unknown. While the tokens to exist currently and in the future are precisely known with BTC/LTC (1:4) which means LTC is actually even more undervalued than physical silver to physical gold. It would be nice to talk about LTC without ever having to mention BTC and I do feel it’s a setback, but at this point maybe necessary especially considering this next BTC pump. 2.) Slogan Suggestion. As you can see I am really on the fence about the silver analogy, so maybe we can just leave it as an unspoken association as we seen Bitcoiners mentioning gold analogy less and less. The funny thing is Coblee and Xinxi totally changed the game with LTC while nobody noticed. It’s so different that I almost think this one change alone has put the silver branding into question. By adding CT transactions and Segwit it provides enough differentiation from BTC to make it a more worthwhile hedge for wealth storage (This is important and helps maintain a higher per coin price). For those that want to save their earnings in a more private blockchain they now have a reason to transfer some BTC over to LTC or bypass it as a means of storage and we already know it’s much better for transfer. Coblee states fungiblity reasons, but I already know people will be taking a second look at LTC after this is implemented because I personally don’t like when people can see all my transactions at a particular address, so having both a fully public and private blockchain is a must. Not only that he knows about the censoring of coins for associations with the dark web even if you weren’t directly involved and that hurts fungibility, so once again the right decisions are being made. With that said, I would personally prefer LTC being considered the “The Swiss Bank of Money”. Money and Currency are actually two VERY different things by the way while gold/silver being money and currency being a derivative of that money. Obama was recently at South by Southwest and gave a speech mentioning crypto directly. It would be hilarious if we embraced his terminology of crypto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDijAoxG9g “It’s like having a Swiss Bank Account in Your Pocket.” Another interesting point is the ironclad privacy that Swiss Banks were known for has been completely undermined by the US probing and global FATCA compliance for all other banks globally. There is no safe haven anymore and in a subtle way this almost alludes to LTC being the last bastion of financial freedom. Picture this, but instead LTC: http://i.imgur.com/yrQYmxO.jpg (The financial system is being completely turned upside down with some countries going to negative interest rates… AKA you pay them for holding your money, so that picture is very accurate.) 3.) Litecoin Constitution or Oath. I will eventually get to the marketing aspect, but this all ties into everything, such as word of mouth. Every great company has a motto, a country a constitution or religions with commandments. It is important because it condenses down why we are here, our beliefs, what we are fighting for, our principles and what is out of scope of the vision or deemed acceptable. We’ve seen glimpses of this from Coblee like when he mentioned after an altcoin forked due to a theft that LTC will never hardfork due to a theft (So, let’s outline it for everyone). This is so important that I could even see a URL being dedicated to it so the world is clear as too what LTC is and stands for. An example of what this would look like: Litecoin Beliefs/Oath: - LItecoin will strive to be as transparent as possible in all aspects of development, marketing, future updates. - Litecoin will strive to remain as decentralized as possible while maintaining a pristine blockchain. All aspects of management for social media and other platforms will also remain decentralized. - Litecoin will never reverse or roll back the blockchain or fork due to a theft or unauthorized transaction. - Litecoin will strive to operate the most financially fair network of wealth storage and transfer as possible. - Litecoin will always strive to bring modern financial access from the richest to the poorest and most remote people on earth. - ETC ETC. Something like this needs to be in place in the event Charlie goes MIA or anyone else in management so we have our guide stone in place. A wealthy individual looking to speculate in LTC and store his wealth there would feel much more comfortable if he knew what LTC stands for. The examples I gave above are how I perceive LTC but writing it in stone would make everything clear for everyone. 4.) Enthusiastic Keynote Speaker. While I love Charlie to death and he’s fighting the good fight it would be nice to see someone like an Andreas equivalent for LTC (English/Chinese speaker would be incredible). When I hear Andreas speak about BTC I literally get goosebumps and my faith/passion is restored in crypto because sometimes we get beat down when our family and friends can’t see the “lite”. While I believe Charlie should never stop spreading awareness at as many events as possible he doesn’t come off as being very confident and a bit shy (which is fine). What I would like to see is high energy, passion, excitement and a confidence in LTC that is unshakeable. Assume the sale man! Charlie observed BTC operating in the wild, made a few tweaks and somehow made a better version of it capable of more yet incredibly stable/functional (without the suspect Satoshi early miner stash). However, I do understand it being difficult to hype LTC when there is not much to talk about since BTC hit all the talking points and LTC was no different other than 4x. For the future we really need to stress the scalability and fungibility improvements. 5.) Thinking out of the box. Xinxi’s paper wallet suggestion if done on a grand scale could be quite massive for adoption despite how primitive it sounds. This is the type of thinking we need to bring LTC functionality/awareness to the masses. Get creative/think outside the box and reach out to the appropriate companies/visionaries or start a business (we need more entrepreneurs and now is the time to get involved and solidify your spot in the industry). Some examples: a. In previous posts we discussed the paper wallets for LTC. If I were to walk up to any person on the street and explain to them that I had one LTC paper wallet in my hand worth $4 and I would be willing to sell it to them for $5 and explained it was rare and similar to Bitcoin (second largest), in addition hit $48 in the past and could happen again and BTC is currently at $780.. I guarantee I could sell them on the spot. That could literally be turned in a business model and scaled as one idea that seems silly, but with awesome potential. b. Tonight I watched the unveiling of the new Tesla solar home roof in addition to the PowerWall 2 unit. Seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqSkR4ENAg Who’s to say we couldn’t contact Tesla and integrate a Scrypt Asic chip into their future PowerWall 3 unit and offset homeowner’s extra battery power into the form of crypto. I mine BTC, LTC, DASH, ETH/ETC and LTC is by far the most profitable to mine, so maybe this actually could be viable. It’s out of the box and worth looking into from a technical standpoint. Coblee literally lives down the street and could meet with them. c. Another idea could be a sidechain mobile mining concept. I’ve thrown that idea around with the LTC devs, just to see what their thoughts were. It would have to be structured in a very particular way to work, but I believe there could be some merit there as well to draw in new users. I would really love some feature to be offered through this additional hash/computational power via a sidechain and potentially something like a Dash masternode for the monthly yield since for some the simple buy and HODL method doesn’t work for them. LTC is supposed to be “money”, so monthly yield is inappropriate similar to how gold doesn’t produce monthly yield by its very nature. 5.) More Accessible Scrypt Miners. It looks like Alcheminer is gone and Titans are no longer obtainable leaving really only Innosilicons terminators older ones and the newer ones coming. It would be nice if we had more affordable smaller miners for your average joe. GPU dominates the word of mouth aspect because of accessibility. Any gamer can get involved, he gets a few coins and then tells his friends being that there is also financial incentive for him to spread awareness. It would be great if we could see more scrypt manufactures producing something to fill this niche. 6.) Localbitcoins.com equivalent. I don’t want to offend anyone again, but the litecoinlocal.net website really does need work. Aesthetically it doesn’t look as visually appealing as LBC and also does not function as well. The .net extension is also not so favorable, so maybe they could acquire a .com equivalent and 301 it. In addition, I see little to no available trades which also does not bode well on the psyche of potential LTC investors. LBC is really a major backbone to Bitcoin adoption considering its functionality for the community and allows people to buy BTC in a more anonymous fashion. Plus, the owner of LBC makes great profit so there is much incentive for running a high caliber local exchange. 7.) Marketing. There really is no marketing for LTC and I’ve never seen any marketing efforts on behalf of the LTC association other than maybe some sponsored ads on reddit (which is fine). This really does need to change because when we saw Dogecoin doing the Nascar stuff or Jamaican bob sled team, I was thinking my god why can’t we get a budget going to spread awareness. While I believed even at the time that their particular choices were foolish I was impressed that they were actually trying to bring about public awareness for Doge. We can maintain interactions on all the social profiles we want in the world, but we really need to be paying for ad placement on networks such as YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc etc. A/B split testing with a test budget would be wise and gauge interaction via a landing page. Side note: It’s funny one of my first projects when I was a kid was a penny stock newsletter site accessible via monthly subscription. We ran ads that were very professional and reasonable such as “Join our newsletter and receive monthly returns up to 20%-30%”. At the time that was very reasonable and realistic based on our track record/advice. The only problem was the ads performed horribly, but then eventually we said screw it and ran ridiculous ads like, “GAINZ of 30000X, GET RICH, GET BITCHES, LIVE ON BEACH IN PARADISE”…. And it worked almost too well. This tells me humans react off greed and dreams of grandeur. I see these claims with altcoins that get pumped which claims of “next Bitcoin” or will “overthrow Bitcoin”. I think that’ more sensational for most people and fills their dreams of becoming rich overnight. There’s those types of people and then there are the more ideological type like we see in the BTC community such as miners that will continue to mine at a loss because they believe so strongly in BTC or the HODLRS that won’t sell even when BTC loses half its value in 48 hours and people are shitting their pants. It would be nice if we could appeal to all demographics. I keep hearing about the LTC Association meetings. Why don’t we publicly post the meeting day/time do it via Google Hangouts so we can all listen in on the conversation. We really need to build a sense of community and that’s lacking as well. Outreach programs could also be a very inexpensive form of marketing. Such as contacting Twitch.tv for potential integration of LTC. If the fundamentals were explained I’m sure there would be successes in furthering adoption of the technology. If the Litcointalk.org website is not going to get fixed can we at least 301 it to the litecointalk.io address for now? Seeing "Hacked" at the top of the site doesn't instill confidence again... Not so great for branding... lol … to be continued. I’m starting to ramble. It’s 3am here and I’m half asleep. I’ll continue writing more on potential marketing efforts/ideas I’ve had (tomorrow). In the meantime, I’ve love to hear feedback on things I’ve shared so far.
1- Primecoin is the First non Hash-Cash PoW Crypto-Currency.
"Primecoin is the first to show that a proof-of-work algorithm could exist to compute things other than cryptographic hash functions."
2- Naturally Scarce
Primecoin is naturally scarce (not artificially) -no hard limit and this is crucial for its long term continuity and its ability to adapt to market conditions.
According to the last estimations, the total supply is going to be ~55 Millions XPM. (peercointalk.org) You don't have to worry about inflation, neither facing blunt deflation (encountered in bitcoin/litecoin)
3- Very fast confirmations - 1min/block 4- Elastic supply
ING economist: "A bitcoin algorithm needs to be developed that smoothly matches money supply & demand"
This is hard-coded in Primecoin: difficulty going down gets corrected upwards because miners are encouraged to mine, having more reward subsidy.
When difficulty is dropping (i.e. miners leave the network), reward-revenue is recalculated upwards so that they come back in, ensuring the network security elastically vs price bumps.
5- Primecoin is sustainable
"Primecoin does not use a fixed cap money supply model like bitcoin as described in the primecoin paper, instead its mining output is associate with Moore's Law. It should have much slower drop of mining subsidy than bitcoin in the longer term (10+ years) thus much less affected than bitcoin in terms of risk of low security level. If Moore's law stops at some point then primecoin block subsidy would become relatively constant, rather than tending to zero as in the case of bitcoin (note though primecoin inflation rate is still tending to zero)."
"When the proof-of-work mint rate approaches zero, there is less and less incentive to mint proof-of-work blocks. Bitcoin is insecure."
"Primecoin has still good scarcity property similar to gold while network security is maintained without the need to raise transaction fee."
"Long-term bitcoin security relies mainly on transaction fees. Primecoin realistically would continue to have some subsidy long term, so is less reliant on transaction fees for security."
6- Primecoin is currently the “fairest” coin to mine
"The Primecoin algorithm is ASIC/FPGA hostile, and even GPU mining is not economically viable at the moment. While it is certainly possible to create specialized mining equipment, it is far more difficult and expensive to develop chips for high speed modular arithmetics. In contrast to SHA-256/Scrypt mining, those chips would also be multi-use and could be applied for other purposes after the next generation hits the market. In a sense, Primecoin is currently the “fairest” coin to mine, as it is purely CPU/GPU based. [...] Besides this, Primecoin already offers a number cloud mining providers, which inevitability will be the final stage in the specialized-mining-chip-race. For example, ASIC supplier KnCMiner recently announced not to produce mining rigs for household use anymore, as non-industrial grade power supply is not sufficient."
7- Primecoin can introduce new participants to the new digital economy
"In a Free Market, there's Free Will (and Creativity) as driver for Actions - and fundamentally Primecoin (almost philosophically) provides us with the ability/choice of applying our Ingenuity on Mining."
"With Primecoin, people who like to mine cryptocurrencies have a better choice to mine, to get more benefit out of the mining activity & environmental cost."
"Primecoin complements the goal here as it produces additional scientific value from the consumed energy. So people who like to mine cryptocurrency for whatever reason have a better choice to mine, to get more benefit out of the mining activity and environmental cost."
With Primecoin, you can actually and effectively Innovate and Improve on Mining Technologies and Techniques, on 2 lines: Hardware and Software. This is radically different from hash-cash PoW. In essence you have twice as much possibilities to earn revenues.
8- Proof-of-work cryptos will gradually transition toward energy-multiuse, ie providing both security & technological computing values. And Primecoin is the pioneer in this realm.
"One year after primecoin's public debut, the cryptocurrency designers are still focused on mixing hash functions with hash-cash proof-of-work, or finding ever more 'cpu friendly' proof-of-work; Primecoin's unique proof-of-work remains the first and one of the very few useful and actually interesting proof-of-work designs, that preserves the decentralization property of cryptocurrency."
9- Primecoin has anti-centralization features
Brute force hashing random numbers, under rigid guidelines(the more CPU, the stronger) doesn't work to mine primecoins - there's no known rules to find prime chains.
Elastic reward re-calibration, in real-time (reward gets immediately lower if difficulty would happen to rise)
10- Primecoin captures the Wasted Energy of Bitcoin's Algorithm - The mining is actually useful
"The reason why Primecoin-like “useful POWs” are the most promising is that, if the computations are useful enough, the currency’s “waste factor” can actually drop below zero, making the currency a public good."
"The innovative prime proof-of-work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse, compared to bitcoin network. Primecoin is designed to sustain a prosperous mining market and high level of security, while maintaining good scarcity property like gold. Primecoin also processes payment transactions 10x faster than bitcoin network."
"Primecoin's proof-of-work is still pretty much the only alternative proof-of-work in production other than hashcash. By alternative proof-of-work, is meant alternative proof-of-work consensus. Interestingly, Primecoin also tries to address bitcoin's energy problem, from a different angle. In a free market, there is bound to be [the] coexistence of energy intensive currencies and energy efficient currencies, meaning, people have free will to consume energy to produce currency for example, mining gold. So Primecoin would demonstrate, such energy consumption can be made energy-multiuse, while preserving the critical decentralization property."
11- Primecoin has direct by-products
"Bitcoin hashing or mining provides no meaningful by-product whereas Primecoin delivers the chains of prime numbers. Primecoin is the first cryptocurrency with such property."
"Prime numbers are very useful. They are important in cryptography, and used in many encryption systems. The larger the list of known primes grows, and as the value of the numbers increases, the security of encryption methods utilizing them improves. Understanding prime numbers is also very important for high level mathematics, physics, and engineering. All non-prime numbers can be constructed from two or more prime numbers, yet a prime number itself cannot be created from any other number. Prime numbers are the building blocks of math. The more we understand about primes, we more we understand about mathematics. The more we understand about mathematics, the more we understand about the universe, and everything in it."
"For example, Primecoin provides financial incentive to these math research (e.g. research about the twin prime conjecture), if your theory advancement can provide a better mining algorithm for Primecoin mining. Twin prime is a special case of bi-twin chain. A bi-twin chain of length two, that is."
"With Primecoin, it's possible to do a proof-of-work consensus other than hashcash and have potential math research along with the fact that FPGA / ASIC development incentive may lead to problems being solved that have never happened before. It's possible, when you have ASIC primality testing chips, the computation capability in these fields would make a giant leap. That could also indirectly help theoretical research."
"Primecoin has delivered. It now holds 5 out of 21 world records in simultaneous prime numbers."
2 potential direct applications of the prime chains from Primecoin network:
Banking on Prime Numbers The prime number chains discovered by the Primecoin network may ultimately make RSA Encryption - and therefore banking in general - more secure by contributing longer prime numbers to use for RSA Encryption; the longer the prime number, the more difficult it is to "break" the encryption.
Hardware Testing & Innovation Since the early days of computing, programs for discovering prime numbers have been developed as a way to test new hardware These by-products include improved computer processors and hardware components, which can be applied to improve computer models used in the science, medical, and engineering industry.
12- Primecoin has been developed by Sunny King, one of the most talented crypto-technologists of the rank of Satoshi Nakamoto
Sunny King along with his team continues to grow Primecoin network and is currently developing a Sidechain technology for Primecoin, that is a common infrastructure to make it easier for developers to create decentralized and distributed data applications (of the sort of: namecoin, storj, peershare, datacoin )
This way, the GPU mining rig will take more space in your room, but for a smaller ASIC you’ll need a separate room, as its sounds won’t let you sleep or concentrate on anything else. You will also have to think about fire safety, choose the right wires and connections, set up ventilation, regularly monitor the working equipment, etc. Think of a Bitcoin ASIC as specialized Bitcoin mining computers, Bitcoin mining machines, or “bitcoin generators”. Nowadays all serious Bitcoin mining is performed on dedicated Bitcoin mining hardware ASICs, usually in thermally-regulated data-centers with low-cost electricity. Don’t Get Confused. There is Bitcoin mining hardware, which mines bitcoins. There are also Bitcoin hardware ... A Bitcoin ASIC miner will, once turned on, not be switched off until it either breaks down or becomes unable to mine Bitcoin at a profit. Because of this, Bitcoin miners increase both the baseload demand on a grid, as well as the need for alternative (fossil-fuel based) energy sources to meet this demand when renewable energy production is low. In the worst case scenario, the presence of ... The miners who indulge in ASIC mining are more developed and sophisticated when they are compared to the traditional miners that use the CPU, GPU, and other components. There are some rare Bitcoin ASIC mining chips and they, along with the common ones, can be used on their own when it comes to the subject of mining of the Bitcoin. GPU vs ASIC Mining Compared. Julia Cook - August 1, 2018 . Before we can progress with these concepts, it is necessary to define briefly what cryptocurrency mining is. In very basic terms, mining refers to the process of using CPU, GPU or ASIC processing power for the purposes of hashing blocks and verifying transactions on the blockchain. This is done in exchange for a reward in the form of ...
T4D #84 - Pt 2 Bitcoin Mining, BFL ASIC vs FPGA vs GPU vs CPU
Is GPU or ASIC Mining MORE Profitable Right Now? Nov 2019 Red Panda Mining. Loading... Unsubscribe from Red Panda Mining? ... #Bitcoin #Profitability #GPUmining. Loading... Hide chat Show chat ... Is GPU mining still worth it? Is GPU mining profitable in 2020?! We review GPU mining profitable and the best graphics cards for mining in 2020 along with CP... Today's source shows us the new Innosilicon A10 ASIC miner for Ethereum. As the price, performance and power usage was shown on the presentation, i decided t... Take a walk through a massive crypto mining farm, this video tour and interview will walk you through one of the biggest mining farms in the world. Subscribe... #bitcoin #cryptomining #gpumining #cpumining #asicmining Learn from crypto mining expert Mark Luther of BitTruth as we discus all things mining. Follow Mark on his channel here - https://www ...